Tuesday, July 29, 2008

Questions this week

One for the techies: Is Cuil the next big thing in search, competing with Google, with thrice as many web pages and former Google brains behind it? It doesn't impress a LOT yet though, even if it's slicker, because of a greater upload time and an apparently special aversion to "google" pages, e.g. Blogspot, which almost do not show up in results at all...Interestingly, it openly criticizes Google's "personal" information collection snooping policies by claiming "We believe that analyzing the Web rather than our users is a more useful approach". Also, what do you think, will Google's Knol manage to be bigger, better than wikipedia, eventually??

On stuff considering lesser mortals next, are we really that stupid, that naive a country that while thousands die in terror attacks every year, we spend the days after 23 blasts spanning two major cities blaming Govt and opposition parties and claiming political conspiracies to unsettle state govts. (do they have a sane head on their head? any of them?) instead of reassuring people, preventing fear and rumor and taking strict action. Seriously, every time something so tragic happens, it makes me think about the heartlessness and the mindlessness with which some people do these things. And about the inefficacy of the politicos, though seeing PM walking with the Gujarat CM to the victims was a reassuring glimpse of sanity. But frankly, what doI expect from a country where someone like Mayawati actually has a real chance today to become Prime Minister of India on some frail stitched regional support. How tragic will that be!!! Scares me to death. For good or for worse, the rgional parties in India have gained a lot of muscle at a national stage in the past couple of decades and one of the worst things that has done is creation of divisive ideologies in India, Hindu vs Muslim, Gujjar vs Meena, General vs OBC, Dalit vs Manuwadi, and endless such crap. Shameful.

On another note, this Sunday I was in CP with an hour to kill, so ended up at Oxford bookstore and chanced upon this small but interesting book "Games Indians Play" by V. Ragunathan that basically uses Game theory to find an insight into why are we, the Indians, the way we are? Quite simply, adding a why to "hum aise hi hain". It says a lot of interesting things, including that Indians suffer from a lack of regulation as well as self-regulations, are privately smart and publicly dumb, and are extremely akin to the situation in the Prisoner's Dilemma where everyone rationally chooses a non-cooperation strategy for personal gain and community loss, except without realizing it is a dilemma at all. It attempts to explain why we tend to jump queues or red lights, have poor public hygiene, take short cuts and tend not to keep our part of the bargain fairly in one-off deals. It also hints on half a solution, or half a strategy that makes a lot of sense to me, hence here it goes: The strategy is called Tit for Tat. It says, never defect, that is never not-cooperate, or be unfair to someone, or cheat a rule etc, until the other party cheats on you, and defects first. Then at the next time, you defect, but see if it co-operates. If it does, co-operate again the next time. In short, remember only the previous behavior of the system you interact with and act accordingly, but never defect first. So, each time someone you say hello to someone who ignores you, do not go into the "never again" revenge modes...just avoid until other person decisively greets or and act on this reaction from the next time.

But all this theory apart, you tell me, what do you think, why are we the way we are?

15 comments:

Divesh said...

Agar dilemma ke solutions exist karte to use dilemma kyun kaha jaata :)

btw, Hello :D

Sumeet said...

I sent you that Naipaul quote, didn't I? I , personally, always read that, when I want to know why are we the way we are.

Anonymous said...

well , it is too early to say this ..google has stopped listing the no. of web pages it holds..on a lighter note when i typed sandeepinlife on google , it showed me 212 results (though most of them were not needed ) whereas on cuil , it said " please check the keywords again ... ;)
among other things , it is not complete mindlessness behind this attacks ..when i compare them to revolutionists of india , it somehow always seem to be justified( i know , one can come with all sort of theories ..cannot help ...)

and why are the way we are ? good ques . but the ans.(according to me ) is Darwinism ..everyone adapts according to conditions ..

Professor Xavier said...

The only thing I don't like about CUIL is the name. Nowhere near as catchy as Google.

Shantanu said...

well really cant comment on cuil now, as well as I am concerned I am still a google worshiper. But the blogspot pages not coming in the search results (of cuil), I think is a bad thing, as a lot of info can be found on blogspot (technical and non technical).

Yes I totally agree with you on the post blasts discussions, the other day I was reading a blog where the blogger compared the post 9/11 discussions, where the entire country united against terrorism, the Republicans and Democrats didn't get into this blame game. I think the problem with us is, for every tragedy, incident we need a "Bali ka Bakra", and that is exactly what is going on these days. As more bombs are being diffused, as the threat grows bigger for all the Indian cities / towns, the discussion on Congress's hand grows bigger as well, I agree this is shameful, rather than looking at the bigger picture again we are caught in this narrow, stinking maligning each other game.

daman said...

it would not outwardly reject cuil..at this moment .may be we are so used too google that anything which replaces it would not make such an impact....i would say that may be there ALGO improves with more training data ...and a little bit of tweaking..so we should be patient..

For the bomb blasts .. then it's no suprise that our politicians are still fighting ...rather than to rescue the live's of effected individuals... i guess we need a generatuon change .. to improve the political apathy in this nation

Yes most of the cases i have witnessed that people are only interested in their oen gains...and why are we like this??? may be it's got something to do with the struggle tha an averge indian has to go through ...but then we(a small fraction of the population) never realise this coz we have all the comforts...

Anonymous said...

Hard to choose between google and cuil.... dono ke founder stan ke hain :P.... but Cuil has a nice interface and the links and categorizations to the right is kewl.....

Knol ka interface sucks... wikipedia is waay better... and the article formatting etc is much better too..... Plus the entire idea of collaborating on the same article and all.... too complicated.....

Game theory ki kitaab India mein!.. kahan milegi??? This one looks to be an interesting read....

Phoenix said...

[divesh]
hi, long time. :P

Solution na sahi best strategy to handle keh lo...point is humein to lagta hi nahi hai dilemma hai bhi..doosri option in almost nt an option

;P

[sumeet]
Well, yeah, but that's still one view, based on a limited perspective (three visits by Naipaul to India in the 1970s) but the point it makes is relevant at its core. Do we understand it as a society?

[sandeep]
The claimed amt on googleblog's latest post is less than Cuil's, and yeah, as of now, google seems to come up with more relevant results but it has a huge headstart of a LOT of research and brains, lots of training data and lots of improvement in their basic algorithm. One thing Cuil certainly seems to miss is that their algo searches web pages but not URL's, apparently. With time though, who knows.

dangerous theories you have, but from any count, killing innocent people is and was never justified. For any cause whatsoever. Our revolutionaries, if that's what you want to compare it too, never targetted civilians. And really, look at the "cause" too.
Darwinism, straight fwd, maybe true, but definitely not complete.

Phoenix said...

[professor xavier]
Hmm well, what is "google" anyway...just think of it as a word, just a word...not the very common thing that u have goten used to day in and day out...but just as a goo and gle. cuil may seem weird now, so did orkut once, or micro+soft

[shantanu]
Google rules today, but with time there's hope there wd be effective competition. Maybe cuil maybe smthng else. It's not that there are zero blogspot pages in cuil, but minimal, esp if u rnt specific. Has a lot of wordpress though, so it struck me odd.

YEah, I read that post too, and Indian public and political apathy to terrorism is indeed weird. Just blame and be done with it. I hate the way media has also becme an instrument in provoking congress vs bjp fights....we r really losing the focus. Stinks.

[

Phoenix said...

[daman kohli]
I sorta agree with you, it's interesting to see hope of serious competition..:P

I dont know if a generation change alone will solve it..politicians are but a reflection of the society that elects them. But people ought to have some stds, some shame and some sense.

Cmon, it's not always the case..what abt jumping the queue to an airline ticket? What abt mercedes drivers jumping red lights? What about even the richest looking for favors, nepotism, short cuts? It's not struggle with them....it's just the way ppl think n behave..n it's quite peculiarly indian...we arent the only poor struggling country in the world


[rohanjain]
hehe..theek hai, u go in an open a third competitor :P :P

I like wiki too, but asi said, dekhte hain, kya hota hai

The book uses game theory and behavorial economics to present loads of situations and analysis...interesting read hai kafi...shd be there at most book stores.

Raja said...

:-)

daman said...

point taken, that we are like that only, may be...we need to learn some discipline from other nations...but this will take time until then we can all help to improve the situation....

Never Mind!! said...

I did not like Cuil yet. I am not a techie so dont completely understand how search engines work.

My word verification is OBGYN. Seriosly!

veikiin said...

Yeah awesome book that one.

Cuil, IMHO, is just another fad. Just getting much more PR than several other "Google Killers".

Coming back to the book. Overall good, but at times I felt the author was a little too cruel. Maybe it was required to drive the point home.

Phoenix said...

[ment]
:) :)

[daman kohli]
Lotsa discipline, fundamentally. I mean privately we are as good, but collective conscience has different dynamics.

[never mind]
Not yet, me too. But I like the sense of competition.

[veikiin]
:)
Maybe you're right. There is this Scour.com too, but the social networkking model is going too far in Web2.0 now.
Yep, it was cruel in parts, have you read Naipaul's India essays...for example, check this one out for cruelty:


The point that one feels inescapable is the fact of India's poverty;
and how deep is one's contempt for those Indians who, finding no
difficulty in accepting one standard in India and another outside it,
fail to realise this, and are failing to work night and day for the
removal of this dreadful insult and humiliation.... The lavatories at
Palam (airport) were literally covered with shit and the aerodrome
officer could only speak of the shortage of staff (i.e. sweepers). I
wonder, wonder if the shitting habits of Indians are not the key to
all their attitudes.... So goodbye to shit and sweepers; goodbye to
people who tolerate everything; goodbye to all the refusal to act;
goodbye to the absence of dignity; goodbye to the poverty; goodbye to
caste and that curious pettiness which permeates that vast country;
goodbye to people who, though consulting astrologers, have no sense of
their destiny as men.... Not only must caste go, but all those sloppy
Indian garments; all those saris and lungis; all that squatting on the
floor to eat, to write, to serve in a shop, to piss.... Probably I am
mad. But it seems to me that everything conspires to keep India down."